McCarthy to remain loyal

Thats right Muppet, you show the fans you wont be moved !! Stand by your guns and go down with the ship... only ****ing problem is - ITS NOT YOUR SHIP, ITS OURS YOU PLANK !! Muppet Out !!

MM's statement reveals the way he uses words to head off well-founded criticism of his team and tactics. By emphasizing the word 'mistakes' he implies that nothing is wrong with either, after all, even good players make 'mistakes'. And they do! However, problems arise when individuals continue to make mistakes, do not learn from them and fail to improve. This makes them bad players ... or, at least, not good enough for the PL, where even a single mistake is regularly punished. This is what happened in the NU game but it also characterised previous games too. Certain players are simply not good enough. We should also subject our manager to the same analysis. All managers make the odd mistake, whether in signings, team selection or tactics (like players they are only human) but the good mangers learn from their mistakes and progress. Yet, MM constantly makes the same mistakes and this leads me to question his ability as a manager of a PL side. Either he is unaware of any shortcomings in the team's performance or in his managerial skills, or he is deliberately refusing to accept them. Whatever the case, it shows up his own shortcomings.

Wake up and smell the Banks' lads it's not Mick, it's the players. Maybe most of you seem to forget that the reality is that we are simply not that good. At times we have played great, but not consistantly enough for us to be comfy in our own skin. Mick now has the unenviable task of raising the morale, addressing mistakes and shouldering the moans and groans of frustrated fans. He will do it because he is a good manager and a top bloke. Perhaps there is an arguement for familarity breeding contempt or fresh blood/ideas being introduced. But i'd rather have Mick than some of the other clueless managers out there. McClaren anyone?? How about Mark Hughes? No no i've got it Gerard Houllier. Yep that's what I thought. For me, Martin O'Neil is the only one who'd definately improve the team. UTW!!

Look you've got to see the bigger picture, in 3 years time those players will be peaking. You can already see noticeable improvements in players like Ward and Jarvo. Yes some players won't progress much in technical ability (and George will always be a big unit), but with 3 years more funds in the coffers and 4 or 5 players of real quality purchased the squad will be strong. The fact of the matter that MM could not get more players in within the window, well I've no doubt that it wasn't for the want of trying SB. I think Mick will do what he needs to do to motivate the players. All of our players like him because they respect him. And loyalty earns respect. Without this he loses the dressing room. I get what he's trying to say. Its no accident we've come so far under him. He needs time, and we all need patience. Chill ya boots rasta! UTW!

Yeah ok we've had a bad run, but it'll click. I've seen enough of this team to know that on our day we can beat anyone! We certainly are better than at least 3 teams in this league that's for sure, regardless of which players he picks!! I've no doubt we will turn the Albion over, both Doyler and Hunty looked sharp last night. Besides, you surely don't expect us to be a mid-table team at the moment, the squad just isn't strong enough. We have points, it's not panic stations just yet. And we are definately more than capable of staying up (unless we see more performances of the QPR variety). Keep the faith SB and don't resign your Saturdays to walking round Ikea with the Mrs just yet. UTW!!

Well said NYC. Big tasty, is it not mick who picks the players >? is it not mick who keeps attack minded talented players like AG, Milijas and, in particular Hammil on the bench, and persists with championship at best defenders... we will go no further under mick, guaranteed. Do you want another umpteen years trying to stave off relegation. I dont. I want rid of the muppet as soon as we can get someone capable in to replace. And I dont rate him as highly as some of the names you bandied about. It's more of the same til the muppet moves on.

I would like to have Big Tasty's optimism and he is right in one sense: our first eleven can win matches against anyone. We lose matches not only because our players - even our best ones - are inconsistent- but also because management does not always get selection or tactics right ... or, at least, until forced to improve them in the course of game (only to revert to the discredited players and tactics for the following game). LovesW: I know the distinction between making a mistake and being a poor player, defining the difference in an earlier post. Unfortuntately, because of repeated mistakes and an inability to learn from them, some players (and members of the management team) at present have to be classed as 'poor'. Big Tasty lays the blame at the feet of the players in an attempt to absolve MM of all responsibility for the failure, but the latter is accountable too. He chooses the team and dictates the tactics. One could argue that the run of bad results, which began against QPR, occurred because MM's selection was poor. Because of the injury to Fletcher, he moved Ward forward in order to retain the 4-4-2 formation that had proved quite effective, though at the time I warned against reading too much into the victories against Blackburn and Fulham, the draw against AV and the spirited defeat to TH. However, moving Ward from the back four and replacing him by Elokobi completely upset the dynamics and solidity of the unit, leaving us horribly exposed, especially down the flanks and ultimately everywhere else. What MM should have done was to revert to a 4-5-1 formation, strengthening our midfield while, with the inclusion of Milijas, improving our threat going forward. Indeed, the continued omission of Milijas is one of the greatest indictments of MM's transfer policy, team selection and tactics. In essence, MM realises that our defence is too weak to afford the luxury of Milijas in a 4-4-2 system and, with Doyle and Fletcher available, he wants to retain that formation. So, if MM wanted to prioritize that formation this season why did he not do more to strengthen our back four and defensive midfield in the transfer window? With the right players, we could have played Milijas and two upfront. It's even possible with the players that we do possess: Guedioura in midfield would be an improvement on Henry, for instance, though, I agree he has to be told firmly exactly what his role is. We have options at RB too in Doherty and, now, Zubar. With Zubar available, MM cannot use the argument about height and Stearman. Hammill must start on the wing too. Like Guedioura he is willing to be adventurous and this keeps defences guessing. And, his crossing is far superior to MJ's, who tends to overhit the ball. JOH also needs to improve too. For all his industry, he has been wayward recently and he doesn't always take the right option. I am not confident about Sunday, a worry that has as much to do with concern about tactics and team selection as it is about the quality of our players.

I take your point and (unlike MM) accept the rebuke. Indeed, rereading your post, I see little difference between your stance and mine in relation to MM. However, I do not think that the Maths analogy is the correct one. In soccer, marks, that is, points are only awarded for results rather than for occasional flashes of good play.

Speaking of development off the pitch, Jez just mentioned the next stage of the redevelopment may be shelved, based largely on blaming the pub rule, allowing games to be shown live. If they do shelve plans will they put the planned development money into developing a squad that is able to establish itself with some comfort as opposed to repeated relegation battles (and it is not too early to speak about relegation battles; speaking about maths, our returns thus far, compared to what we needed last season just to finish 17th, does not bode well- it points directly to a relegation battle on most of us learned from last season that aiming for a point per game is a very dangerous ploy.) I don't think many of us were day dreaming of hitting 40 points, 50 more like. Steve Morgan does seem to like things Irish so if there is a changing of the guards there is a supposedly mad one who steered Aston Villa to 6th place three years in a row? We were toying with the idea of different managers last season- it is something that we as fans are already giving a lot more thought to this season and the simple reason is that we are not satisfied in what we are seeing, and the same mistakes time and again are wearing very thin. One solid point that has been made several times above, is Mick's continuation to pick players ahead of those who based on performance are surely the better choice to start with. Hammill has not put a foot wrong since he came to the club- he has changed games when he has been thrown on, usually as a desperate measure. AG I think may well need his purpose and positioning tightened but aside from that he similarly has changed games with his all round play- aside from the fact, he can pressure, tackle, pass (including forward), run with the ball, go round players, cross and score, he has that little thing called confidence which those in the side have already shown signs of losing. As for Milijias it is beyond belief that a player of this quality can not even make the bench. Then of course we can start looking at the right back position- right there it would appear we have another 'if he is fit and available he plays' situation with Stearman, akin to Henry who is guaranteed to start Sunday because Mick has to prove once more it is HE who picks the team and not us. Yes Mick, it is your job to pick the team- you just aren't doing a very good job of it. If he can't shake that stubborn nature and make necessary changes Steve Morgan will make one for him. I like Mick and would be thrilled to see a win over Albion prove the start of a run that puts our season on the right tracks. I love my club however, and if/when it becomes apparent he is not capable of meeting expectations then it will be time for a change.

Predicted MM team - WH, RS, CB, RJ, SW, KH, JOH, SH, MJ, KD, SF My choice - WH, RZ, CB, RJ, SW, JOH, AG, SH, MJ, KD, SF (with KH & AH on at the 60min mark). UTW!!!

Doyler not starting SB? That's like chicken without the Jerk. Lol!! Besides I fancy Doyler to be on his game after watching him for ROI.. (fingers crossed).

I think it will be an unchanged starting eleven.May I point those interested towards the formations thread on the forum. I'd also like to recommend Mercian1969's channel on YouTube, some good clips of yesteryear (especially the '70's) and well worth a watch.