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McCarthy to remain loyal

Mick McCarthy will stand by his wounded Wolves.

We might have lost our last four games on the spin, but our Mick is not one for changing his principles and he will stick with the his side after a poor run of results.

'I still maintain we're getting punished, not through playing badly but making mistakes,' he told Wolves Official Website. 'So I'm not to just go making wholesale changes. Because with that you don't get anywhere.'

He continued: 'You have to give a fair bit of loyalty to people I think because then you get it in return as well.'

There is also the old motto Mick that when it 'Ain't broke, don't fix it', which also has to work both ways and some will argue that it is currently broke and if you don't make changes, some will begin to ask if you are the right bloke to fix it.

Vital Wolves Comment: I've already heard the Mick McCarthy out bandwagon firing up its engines, another defeat and the momentum could begin to gather, especially as that next game is against West Bromwich Albion.

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The Journalist

Writer: Akela Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Monday October 10 2011

Time: 5:00PM

Your Comments (oldest first)

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MM says he is going to select the same players because they have not been playing badly merely making mistakes. Phew, as that solves the problem of the four defeats on the trot, we can relax. Mistakes don't count so, even if the players continue to commit them, we will be OK. What kind of justification is that: it's gobbledygook! Now I know MM has lost the plot. It will be interesting to see if his selection for the WBA match reflects his statement or not. Isn't it nice to get back to a meaty subject after the void of a matchless weekend?
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10/10/2011 23:22:00

Thats right Muppet, you show the fans you wont be moved !! Stand by your guns and go down with the ship... only ****ing problem is - ITS NOT YOUR SHIP, ITS OURS YOU PLANK !! Muppet Out !!
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11/10/2011 10:09:00

I thought we were supposedly going to be ok this season, because the players have another year of PL experience and will therefore not be "making mistakes" as before.MM says we're not playing badly just making mistakes.Similar to what he's being saying for three seasons,then."We'll be ok...as long as we cut out the mistakes",is a typical quote to explain away poor performances.At which point does "making mistakes" equate to "playing badly", exactly?As SB said, if you take what MM says literally, then mistakes don't count when appraising performance.I wish MM had marked my O Levels, then!
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11/10/2011 11:13:00

MM's statement reveals the way he uses words to head off well-founded criticism of his team and tactics. By emphasizing the word 'mistakes' he implies that nothing is wrong with either, after all, even good players make 'mistakes'. And they do! However, problems arise when individuals continue to make mistakes, do not learn from them and fail to improve. This makes them bad players ... or, at least, not good enough for the PL, where even a single mistake is regularly punished. This is what happened in the NU game but it also characterised previous games too. Certain players are simply not good enough. We should also subject our manager to the same analysis. All managers make the odd mistake, whether in signings, team selection or tactics (like players they are only human) but the good mangers learn from their mistakes and progress. Yet, MM constantly makes the same mistakes and this leads me to question his ability as a manager of a PL side. Either he is unaware of any shortcomings in the team's performance or in his managerial skills, or he is deliberately refusing to accept them. Whatever the case, it shows up his own shortcomings.
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11/10/2011 11:36:00

I think its starting to become clearer to more and more Wolves fans that mick has taken us as far as he is capable... his (increased) arrogance in the press i presume is a result of the pressure he is feeling. This bloke is one excuse after another, and a snapshot from this an many other blogs sees the average fan getting fed up with them. Expect more and more resistance as the weeks and pig-headedness roll on. The natives are indeed getting restless.
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11/10/2011 13:51:00

Wake up and smell the Banks' lads it's not Mick, it's the players. Maybe most of you seem to forget that the reality is that we are simply not that good. At times we have played great, but not consistantly enough for us to be comfy in our own skin. Mick now has the unenviable task of raising the morale, addressing mistakes and shouldering the moans and groans of frustrated fans. He will do it because he is a good manager and a top bloke. Perhaps there is an arguement for familarity breeding contempt or fresh blood/ideas being introduced. But i'd rather have Mick than some of the other clueless managers out there. McClaren anyone?? How about Mark Hughes? No no i've got it Gerard Houllier. Yep that's what I thought. For me, Martin O'Neil is the only one who'd definately improve the team. UTW!!
Big Tasty
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11/10/2011 14:45:00

You are right to a certain point, Big Tasty, because some of the players are not good enough. We know that and so should MM. But that begs the question why MM did not recognize the shortcomings in the team and buy replacements in the transfer window. RJ and JOH are insufficient in themselves and now they are being dragged down. MM is not even making best use of the players at his disposal and he does seem to persist in selecting players who out of form to the exclusion of others who are playing well. He has to shoulder some of the blame and his latest utterance is a smokescreen to cover his own shortcomings. This one even tops the statement that Elokobi is a classy PL player.
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11/10/2011 19:06:00

Look you've got to see the bigger picture, in 3 years time those players will be peaking. You can already see noticeable improvements in players like Ward and Jarvo. Yes some players won't progress much in technical ability (and George will always be a big unit), but with 3 years more funds in the coffers and 4 or 5 players of real quality purchased the squad will be strong. The fact of the matter that MM could not get more players in within the window, well I've no doubt that it wasn't for the want of trying SB. I think Mick will do what he needs to do to motivate the players. All of our players like him because they respect him. And loyalty earns respect. Without this he loses the dressing room. I get what he's trying to say. Its no accident we've come so far under him. He needs time, and we all need patience. Chill ya boots rasta! UTW!
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11/10/2011 21:32:00

But we've stalled, Big Tasty, and we are on the edge as it is. How much closer to the drop can we get than last year without going down? And are you really happy with our form over the past few games? It is shaping up to be a repeat of last season and management did little in the summer to ensure that we avoided a relegation struggle. It's not that we don't possess the funds. If we don't do something now in three years time our best players will have left and we will be struggling to get out of the Championship. And, to repeat, we are not making best use of our current squad because MM is not selecting solely on merit. Then he issues a statement that is patently ridululous to cover the paucity of his planning and execution.
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11/10/2011 23:27:00

Yeah ok we've had a bad run, but it'll click. I've seen enough of this team to know that on our day we can beat anyone! We certainly are better than at least 3 teams in this league that's for sure, regardless of which players he picks!! I've no doubt we will turn the Albion over, both Doyler and Hunty looked sharp last night. Besides, you surely don't expect us to be a mid-table team at the moment, the squad just isn't strong enough. We have points, it's not panic stations just yet. And we are definately more than capable of staying up (unless we see more performances of the QPR variety). Keep the faith SB and don't resign your Saturdays to walking round Ikea with the Mrs just yet. UTW!!
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12/10/2011 12:54:00

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday, a Spurs fan. I told her our patience was clearly beginning to wear very thin. She argued it was still early days; I pointed our that before we know it we shall all be a quarter into the season- so far we have lost more than half of the games we have played again and there is no indication this will change. I am not a pessimist. Before the QPR game I looked at the fixtures leading up to Christmas and argued there was no reason why we could not reach January without losing at home- check the fixtures and my assertion was not as silly as it sounds in the present moment. On paper there was nothing to fear- the big guns we all play away from home and there has been a continued belief that we should not fear any side, and that we are capable of beating anybody. Ultimately it was the big wins over United, City, Liverpool and such last season which kept us up- the reason being we did not take care of those in or around us, no better example than Wigan. Being a Wolves fan I learned many years not to place hope in hope! Hope is an irrational basis from which to work, which is why I don't have any. Success is a result of organization and application, neither of which we are showing much of. Tactically, Mick and Terry have two approaches to games. 4-5-1 or 4-4-2, and when one is not going well we simply try the other. It is not difficult to work it out and it can't take opposition managers long to tell their players what to expect from us, and how to prepare. Team selection and substitutions continue to baffle. As for the players, they may be able to play well for sustained periods, look great at times in fact, but what chance have you got when you are gifting sides two goal leads. It may make for a spectacle, the near comeback at Liverpool, the near comeback against Newcastle, the impressive 70 minutes we put in against Spurs, but where are the points. The players themselves continue to make the same mistakes at either end of the field. The Newcastle keeper played a blinder but how many chances do you need to put the ball in the back of the net. The defending once again was a joke. I think we have a squad more than capable of finishing mid table. As I said the other week, Roger Johnson looked great first couple of games but having spent a few months now on the training field with Mick and his trusty companion Terry, Johnson looks as bad as any of those around him. I do not expect us to win Sunday. Defeat will heap great pressure on the players going into the Swansea game, and we have seen how they cope with pressure. I would love it, love it (places big earphones on) if we beat them Sunday, of course I would but the lead up to our next game is once more littered with the same story we have been listening to for two years and counting. If Mick insists on 'remaining loyal' to those who continue to make mistakes, he has to 'hope' Steve Morgan will do the same.
New York City Wolf
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12/10/2011 14:06:00

Well said NYC. Big tasty, is it not mick who picks the players >? is it not mick who keeps attack minded talented players like AG, Milijas and, in particular Hammil on the bench, and persists with championship at best defenders... we will go no further under mick, guaranteed. Do you want another umpteen years trying to stave off relegation. I dont. I want rid of the muppet as soon as we can get someone capable in to replace. And I dont rate him as highly as some of the names you bandied about. It's more of the same til the muppet moves on.
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12/10/2011 14:45:00

MM is right, making mistakes is not synonymous with playing badly! I remember my maths teacher still awarding points for an answer arrived at by the correct process but wrong because of a mistake in the final simple arithmetical operation. The question is, Is the team playing well? Never mind the mistakes, Is the team playing well to start with? If it were, MM's comment would at least deserve some consideration. As it is, the team has played well in the last two games only in the second halves, when substitutions were effected to 'correct' the starting line-ups. The changes themselves were an admission to that, and the effect on the field the proof of it. AdMant: leaving Hammill and Milijas on the bench...add Guedioura and we are in total agreement. These three must come in. Mistakes by players can to some extent be forgiven. Not so errors in selection by a manager who by his own changes during the course of a match thereby admits to a wrong starting line-up, yet persists with the same line-up for the next match..then the same corrective measures all over again, again too late, again to no effect.
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12/10/2011 15:56:00

I would like to have Big Tasty's optimism and he is right in one sense: our first eleven can win matches against anyone. We lose matches not only because our players - even our best ones - are inconsistent- but also because management does not always get selection or tactics right ... or, at least, until forced to improve them in the course of game (only to revert to the discredited players and tactics for the following game). LovesW: I know the distinction between making a mistake and being a poor player, defining the difference in an earlier post. Unfortuntately, because of repeated mistakes and an inability to learn from them, some players (and members of the management team) at present have to be classed as 'poor'. Big Tasty lays the blame at the feet of the players in an attempt to absolve MM of all responsibility for the failure, but the latter is accountable too. He chooses the team and dictates the tactics. One could argue that the run of bad results, which began against QPR, occurred because MM's selection was poor. Because of the injury to Fletcher, he moved Ward forward in order to retain the 4-4-2 formation that had proved quite effective, though at the time I warned against reading too much into the victories against Blackburn and Fulham, the draw against AV and the spirited defeat to TH. However, moving Ward from the back four and replacing him by Elokobi completely upset the dynamics and solidity of the unit, leaving us horribly exposed, especially down the flanks and ultimately everywhere else. What MM should have done was to revert to a 4-5-1 formation, strengthening our midfield while, with the inclusion of Milijas, improving our threat going forward. Indeed, the continued omission of Milijas is one of the greatest indictments of MM's transfer policy, team selection and tactics. In essence, MM realises that our defence is too weak to afford the luxury of Milijas in a 4-4-2 system and, with Doyle and Fletcher available, he wants to retain that formation. So, if MM wanted to prioritize that formation this season why did he not do more to strengthen our back four and defensive midfield in the transfer window? With the right players, we could have played Milijas and two upfront. It's even possible with the players that we do possess: Guedioura in midfield would be an improvement on Henry, for instance, though, I agree he has to be told firmly exactly what his role is. We have options at RB too in Doherty and, now, Zubar. With Zubar available, MM cannot use the argument about height and Stearman. Hammill must start on the wing too. Like Guedioura he is willing to be adventurous and this keeps defences guessing. And, his crossing is far superior to MJ's, who tends to overhit the ball. JOH also needs to improve too. For all his industry, he has been wayward recently and he doesn't always take the right option. I am not confident about Sunday, a worry that has as much to do with concern about tactics and team selection as it is about the quality of our players.
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12/10/2011 20:53:00

Southbank, the distinction I was refering to was that between the mistakes of individual players and bad play by the team as a team brought about by bad team selection. Reading again what I wrote, I can say that it is clear that the context of the whole should have borne this out. I have no doubt that you know the distinction between a player making mistakes and him being a bad player, without me having to search through previous threads for your definitions. My point is that I see mistakes by players only as fortuitous; not so bad selection and wrong tactics.
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13/10/2011 02:39:00

I take your point and (unlike MM) accept the rebuke. Indeed, rereading your post, I see little difference between your stance and mine in relation to MM. However, I do not think that the Maths analogy is the correct one. In soccer, marks, that is, points are only awarded for results rather than for occasional flashes of good play.
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13/10/2011 08:09:00

It's very easy for us to sit here and pick apart team selections, criticise tactics and general approach. And don't get me wrong, I agree with some of it. But I 100% believe in Mick and this team. All are honest as the day is long, they work hard and play some good stuff at times. But us fans are greedy. We want the development on the pitch to match our development off it. And there's nothing wrong with ambition, but getting rid of MM and bringing in some other clown is not the answer. AND may i just say that if you are not a season ticket holder take advantage of the fans five offer. Five games against Swansea, Stoke, Norwich, S'land & Wigan for 100. Well done Jez, lets pack the Mol out and back our lands to win these crucial matches. UTW!!
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13/10/2011 11:57:00

Speaking of development off the pitch, Jez just mentioned the next stage of the redevelopment may be shelved, based largely on blaming the pub rule, allowing games to be shown live. If they do shelve plans will they put the planned development money into developing a squad that is able to establish itself with some comfort as opposed to repeated relegation battles (and it is not too early to speak about relegation battles; speaking about maths, our returns thus far, compared to what we needed last season just to finish 17th, does not bode well- it points directly to a relegation battle on most of us learned from last season that aiming for a point per game is a very dangerous ploy.) I don't think many of us were day dreaming of hitting 40 points, 50 more like. Steve Morgan does seem to like things Irish so if there is a changing of the guards there is a supposedly mad one who steered Aston Villa to 6th place three years in a row? We were toying with the idea of different managers last season- it is something that we as fans are already giving a lot more thought to this season and the simple reason is that we are not satisfied in what we are seeing, and the same mistakes time and again are wearing very thin. One solid point that has been made several times above, is Mick's continuation to pick players ahead of those who based on performance are surely the better choice to start with. Hammill has not put a foot wrong since he came to the club- he has changed games when he has been thrown on, usually as a desperate measure. AG I think may well need his purpose and positioning tightened but aside from that he similarly has changed games with his all round play- aside from the fact, he can pressure, tackle, pass (including forward), run with the ball, go round players, cross and score, he has that little thing called confidence which those in the side have already shown signs of losing. As for Milijias it is beyond belief that a player of this quality can not even make the bench. Then of course we can start looking at the right back position- right there it would appear we have another 'if he is fit and available he plays' situation with Stearman, akin to Henry who is guaranteed to start Sunday because Mick has to prove once more it is HE who picks the team and not us. Yes Mick, it is your job to pick the team- you just aren't doing a very good job of it. If he can't shake that stubborn nature and make necessary changes Steve Morgan will make one for him. I like Mick and would be thrilled to see a win over Albion prove the start of a run that puts our season on the right tracks. I love my club however, and if/when it becomes apparent he is not capable of meeting expectations then it will be time for a change.
New York City Wolf
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13/10/2011 14:27:00

Indeed, Soutbank, our stances are identical, and if I clarify what I meant to convey by the Maths analogy (thank you for reminding me that the subject takes the capital letter) I feel we would be one there too. Had MM got the formation and tactics right to start with, the negative result would have been placed squarely on the players and their mistakes, absolving, as it were, MM entirely of any responsibility, hence the credit, by itself, of fielding the right formation corresponding to the awarding of marks for having the process right in the Maths analogy. When the system (the process) is wrong, mistakes can only compound the difficulties, not be the cause of them, but on paper, or on the screen, to amend the phrase, it would appear that the defensive mistakes were the direct cause of defeat. It has not to do, therefore, with the fact, as you rightly point out, that points are awarded for results and not for good play, but rather that credit (marks) should nonetheless be given to a valid system of play, for itself, (mathematical process), even if the whole is undone by silly mistakes. This has not been the case. rather, a wrong method was only capped by the mistakes. We shall see how MM will be going about the next 'High Noon at the Hawthorns' come Sunday. My feeling is that he will compromise, bringing in two from Milijas, Guedioura, Hammill and Zubar.
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13/10/2011 14:33:00

Predicted MM team - WH, RS, CB, RJ, SW, KH, JOH, SH, MJ, KD, SF My choice - WH, RZ, CB, RJ, SW, JOH, AG, SH, MJ, KD, SF (with KH & AH on at the 60min mark). UTW!!!
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13/10/2011 15:18:00

My choice: WH; MD/RZ, RJ, CB, SW; SH, AG, JOH, NM, AH; SF. Start with a 4-5-1 in order to avoid shipping goals and as a means of instilling confidence. Change to a 4-4-2 formation once we have achieved domination in midfield: the identity of the midfielder who will make way for Doyle to be determined according to circumstances and performance.
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13/10/2011 16:00:00

Doyler not starting SB? That's like chicken without the Jerk. Lol!! Besides I fancy Doyler to be on his game after watching him for ROI.. (fingers crossed).
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13/10/2011 16:21:00

Well, I have not seen the recording of the ROI match yet, BT, so I might change my mind. I'll watch it this evening after my wife has gone to bed. I pondered hard over the decision but Doyle has not been playing well recently and Fletcher is more capable of getting goals. I think we need to start with a 4-5-1 formation in order to put an end to our current practice of giving away a couple of goals to the opposition. Moreover, if we play an aggressive form of the system, more akin to 4-3-3, we should be able to put balls onto Fletcher's head or to his feet. That's why I want to play Hammill and Hunt on the wings and Milijas in midfield. If we do start with 4-4-2 I would put SH, NM, AG and AH in midfield, while asking SH to track back. I would also remind AG of his defensive duties, while allowing him to go forward if an opportunity arises. It's a bit risky but it's a team with flair as well as commitment. But, given the situation, I think we should adopt the more cautious 4-5-1 plan at first.
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13/10/2011 17:08:00

I think it will be an unchanged starting eleven.May I point those interested towards the formations thread on the forum. I'd also like to recommend Mercian1969's channel on YouTube, some good clips of yesteryear (especially the '70's) and well worth a watch.
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13/10/2011 17:22:00


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